13 - Early Year Revisited
Jonathan: All right mom it’s November 22 2025 glad to be talking with you this morning.
Laura: Okay well. I’ll do it too.
Jonathan: So it’s Saturday morning, a little after nine and November 22, that is my son Aaron’s 24th birthday.
Laura: So that’s right.
Jonathan: He’s celebrating birthday today. And he’s unfortunately far away from us. He’s in Tucson. But yeah, looking forward to celebrating when he when he gets back. But I wondered as a conversation topic, if you have memories of birthdays and traditions, maybe within your family as you were a kid growing up or special birthdays that you remember that stand out in your memory.
Laura: Well, our birthdays growing up were very low key. Because my mom did not ever bake a cake. And my dad did most of the cooking, but not baking. So if we had baked goods, including cookies, donuts, and cupcakes, they were always purchased. So I don’t remember candles being lit. I remember that there would be a package at dinner that I could open during dessert, and that usually there was something that came from Grandpa Gazan and Aunt Agnes. And what they sent me was always substantially more than what my parents bought for me.
One of the things I remember that I loved were little puzzles, like 100-piece puzzles. And my parents would buy that because our whole family would use those. We’d started up somewhere in the kitchen. So that was a birthday present I remember from my parents. I remember from my grandpa getting a doll. It was a doll that was very popular there during those, my younger years.
Let’s see.
It was a doll that was probably about 12 or 14 inches high and fancily dressed. It was not a baby doll. It was a lady doll. And I had a little wooden cradle that I stored things like that. More than the doll, I stored bids and other toys. The cradle was much larger than the doll that I remember Grandpa sending me. I don’t remember having a doll from my parents, but I must have had some kind of a baby doll because that’s when I got the crib for the first time.
Um, I do think that getting, we didn’t never got an allowance, but I think that at birthday time I got something to spend. Now I’m talking like 50 cents because if I spent five cents at the Smithies candy store, which was right across the street from 4th Street Christian School. I would get five different things in a bag. They would all be a penny a piece, but you’d get a lot for five cents. And so birthdays would be a time when I might get some spending money, not to spend it all. And I always had a piggy bank. And I did not ever have, as a young girl, any kind of a savings account in a bank or anything like that. So accumulating change was by a piggy bank, never bills.
My birthday and Ted’s, my Uncle Ted’s birthday and Aunt Connie’s birthday We’re all within six days in April, April 14, 17, and 20.
So I think that we have a family birthday dinner. I don’t remember birthday cakes, but I think cupcakes and surely that they celebrated and remembered that it was a special day. And I think that just for practical reasons that we probably celebrated them all together.
Jonathan: Okay.
Laura: So then as I grew up and started to have children, I remember a couple of times when Connie,
set up a big sign in the bathroom. And when I went in the bathroom, first thing in the morning, sat down on the toilet right facing me on the wall was the big sign, Happy Birthday, Mom.
I think that as the years grew and the kids were on their own, then they would get me gifts for my birthday. One of the things that I saved were books, books from my mom and books from my kids. I think that in that case, Connie was the one that found them. Cookbooks, devotional books. some classics like Little Women.
I don’t remember that we used the library very much, but I did get books at school. And so owning books was special. And I still have many of them. But I gave away my whole library to the Potter’s House Christian School in the last half a year. And I only saved any that were from family members with inscriptions inside, or I saved books where the authors signed them. For example, Peter Craeft, I have a couple of his. And the comment inside in the front was, to dad, and somehow I got them.
Jonathan: That’s neat. Let me ask you something. I’ve heard you talk. I’m going to backtrack just a little bit. I’ve heard you talk about that doll. And if I remember correctly, it was like a porcelain kind of doll where its face was kind of a hard porcelain. Is that the same doll you’re thinking of?
Laura: Yes. Yes. It came with a couple of outfits. I want to say Princess Doll, but there’s a name for them, and it was something that was very popular and sold all over in the United States when I got one. And I got that from Grandpa and Aunt Agnes. My parents never bought me something like that.
Jonathan: Well, and that was an interesting point that you made that like that they seem to be a little almost over the top or something in terms of gifting you. Is that is that how you thought of it then or that you think of it now?
Laura: Yes, yes.
Once we moved into Michigan. Things changed, but when we were in New Jersey, And I don’t remember receiving anything in Philadelphia and Baltimore. I was way too young. But in New Jersey, it would come in a package. And so a package coming in the mail was a big deal. And that’s when Grandpa and Aunt Agnes would send me the kind of toy or the kind of object that was
Jonathan: Um, how shall I say it?
Laura: Extravagant compared to what my parents bought for us.
Jonathan: I’m sorry. Go ahead.
Laura: Um, one birthday, my, my grandpa, let’s see, this was in connection with my parents and grandpa. They bought me my first two wheel bike.
Jonathan: Now we lived at the bottom of our, I’m going to interrupt you because you talked about this earlier. Your main voyage ended badly, if I recall.
Laura: Yes. And so I, I went to the top of the hill, which was the corner of the street that my house was on. So I didn’t have to cross any streets. I just was going to go down the hill. And when I got to the top of the hill, I held onto a big blue mailbox that was on the corner there to get seated. And then I grabbed the wheel, grabbed the handlebars and didn’t paddle at all. Just floated down the river, I mean down the hill until I got to the corner where my mother’s rock garden was, but I was going too fast to dare to turn, and I smashed into the rock garden.
It was a brand new bike, but it was all dinged in and scratched after that fall, because it landed on rocks, and it slid.
Jonathan: Some kind of gratitude from that child, right?
Laura: But that birthday, that was a birthday present. And I think it was a combination because that would not have come in the mail. So I think grandpa sent some money and dad bought it.
Jonathan: The Gazans gifted you and your brothers in my fashion. So it’s really special. Do you think that the Gazans did that with their other?
Laura: I’m sure they did. Anne Agnes was always so very thoughtful. I don’t think that grandpa had a calendar he kept track of, but Anne Agnes would surely remind him and he would be part of the gift.
Jonathan: Yeah. So talk to me about other, not necessarily just from them, but other gifts that you remember from your family. Either did your siblings, was there a history of siblings making cards or gifting you? Do you recall that?
Laura: No, I don’t. I don’t recall that at all.
Jonathan: What about? What about other significant gifts like that doll that stood out in your memory in that bike? Are there other over the years? Like maybe we can start in childhood, but more recently too, special gifts for birthday or just generally that you received.
Laura: Well, I did not ever wear much jewelry. But I did get a necklace that was heart-shaped that you could open and put a little photograph inside of it.
And I think that that was gold because after I finally accepted the fact that I was going to be divorced, I gathered anything gold including my wedding ring and I brought them to a local jeweler’s and he gave me an estimate and I sold all of that just because I didn’t wear enough and I was trying to save money to save to build the house. My diamond ring was one little diamond in the center and some little stones encircling it. But overall, the top of the ring was not large at all. And the fact that I didn’t wear jewelry Um, I think that grandpa and in Agnes realized that because I don’t remember they’re giving me jewelry. Um, I think that in their mind and in my parents’ mind and in my mind, things to read were valuable and welcomed. Yeah.
Jonathan: But that locket and the ringer course would be, would those both have been gifts from, from Bob?
Laura: The ring was from Bob. The locket was from Grandpa.
Jonathan: From Grandpa Gazan.
Laura: Yes.
Jonathan: OK. Yeah, that’s neat. So yeah, other gifts that come to mind?
Laura: I can’t think of any.
Jonathan: Let’s think about just possessions more generally. You’ve talked about books. I know that’s been a central part of your person. Are there other possessions that you may even have today or possessions that you retained for a long time because they had very special meaning for you?
Laura: My mother saved Delft, China. It is blue and white. There are vases, pitchers, sugar bowls, and I have a lot of those today. And at the time, when my mom became too sick to make any decisions anymore, Then I remember that my dad said he didn’t know how to get rid of some of this stuff. And at that time, neither he nor I nor Aunt Connie thought that these were very, very valuable. Well, in the meantime, years have passed and all of a sudden, If I go to an antique quote on the computer, I’m very shocked at how valuable these are now. One of the things that I got from Aunt Agnes was a serving plate like not a plate for dinner, but a plate you’d put brownies on or something. And it commemorated the crowning of Princess Wilhelmina. And I am told that that plate is very valuable. I think I have the original box somewhere, but I can’t find it. Because the other thing is, if you have something valuable in the box it came in, it increases the value. Did you know that?
Jonathan: I didn’t know that.
Laura: Yeah. So when I turn the kitchen upside down someday, I hope I find that.
Because I know it came in a box, and I’m sure I would never have burned or put away the box. So of all of the valuable things that I have, going back and mostly things that came from Grandpa and Agnes, that is the most valuable one.
Jonathan: Let me pivot the conversation slightly and not with respect to like dollar value, but are there gifts that your parents gave you or your siblings gave you that stand out in your memory from a sentimental value? Like that just maybe you still have them or you just have a vivid memory of them being really important to you.
Laura: I don’t remember any. The truth is, we never made a big to do about birthdays. And when you kids were growing up, I think I did more about birthdays for my own children than I ever experienced myself. I know I would make birthday cakes. And I know that we had a dinner or a meal where we would sing this happy birthday and you would get some package from me. But that formality of celebrating birthdays didn’t happen in my childhood, but I tried to make it happen in your childhood.
Jonathan: You absolutely did. I can attest to this. I do remember you making special occasions and birthday cakes and gifts wrapped. I remember getting a gyroscope of all things from you. It’s one of my special memories of gifts you gave me. But that’s interesting that your parents didn’t prioritize that for some reason, but you did. Why is that, I wonder?
Laura: Because It became apparent to me as I was teaching what the traditions were in lots of families. And also I think watching my sister Connie, Abe would make a big to-do about their kids’ birthdays. And also bridal showers, baby showers. Aunt Connie and Uncle Abe did a lot of those kinds of things. I did not.
Jonathan: OK. Well, it’s interesting to understand better. So I want to pivot a little bit, and we won’t talk a long time about this unless you want to. But kind of like possessions, gifts, there are certain people that view clothing and shopping for clothing with it’s a source of joy or something for them. Do you recall your parents shopping with you for clothes? Like, was that something your mom would do with you? Or what are your early memories of that?
Laura: I don’t remember going shopping. I just remember that I would come home from school and she would have something on a chair. I don’t think that she went to garage sales. I think, um,
It might have even been a Sears catalog that she shopped from.
Because I don’t recall used clothes that were given to me. They were mostly new and very, very few. The dress that I wore to church, I wore it till I got too big for it. So it would be the same one week after week.
The one thing that I do remember was we had a dear friend in Patterson, New Jersey. Mina Kingma was her name. And she knitted a sweater for me. And that was a substantial gift. And it was beautiful. And I wore that many, many occasions. And I wore it till it was way too tight, too small, because I kept getting bigger. But I think that she gave that to me maybe when I was 12 or I’m not sure. Let’s see. We left New Jersey. I was in grade eight.
So it must have been the year before we left New Jersey that she gave me that sweater. And I wore it for a long, long time. And I was always amazed that she knit the whole thing. And that gave me an inspiration. I wanted to learn how to knit too. And so when we were in Grand Rapids, one of the department stores had a knitting class. And I went and I was the only young person. They were all old ladies, old ladies in me. And that’s where I learned to knit. But the inspiration to learn came from Myna Kingma’s sweater.
Jonathan: Oh, that is wonderful. Tell me what color was the sweater? You remember it had cabling on it or was it heavy?
Laura: Yes, it was heavy and it wasn’t cabled. It wasn’t fancy, but it had buttons on it. It was a cardigan and it was blue.
Jonathan: And Myna Kingman was a person like a friend of your mom or your dad’s or my dad’s church.
Laura: Years later, when I was teaching at Oakdale,
A mother made another blue sweater that’s more like a jacket. And I wear it to this day. And it is very heavy and has pockets and beautiful buttons. And when I look at it now, I think, what an amazing gift to come from a student’s parent. And I don’t remember what triggered her wanting to do something so huge for me. But to give that kind of a gift to a teacher, not even a family member, that’s a substantial gift. And it’s in my closet, and it’s very warm. So when the weather gets cold, I’ll pull it out and I’ll wear it all the time. Now this has to be 34 years ago. Yeah. Yeah.
Jonathan: Yeah. That that’s powerful. The hours invested by that parent. They must have thought a lot about you.
Laura: I guess.
Jonathan: Mina Kingman. What do you think prompted her? I mean, did she make sweaters for just strangers walking down the street?
Laura: No, but I think she made them for other members of my family.
Jonathan: So that prompted you to take a knitting class. You were 13 or 14 years old.
Laura: Yes.
Jonathan: And tell me about the logistics. Like, was that Tuesday night or an evening sort of thing that you walk to or how far was it from your home?
Laura: It was at Chrisberg’s, which is downtown. So I would have had to take the bus. And it was at a time when I was studying Oregon and my life was full of a whole lot of other things than time to knit was sort of surprising that I even found the time. But that is a skill that I have used my whole life. Just almost every baby that’s been born in our family has gotten a baby sweater from me. I think there are three or four of them downstairs waiting for your children to have babies. somebody else, but I’ve got a humongous load of yarn and a lot of knitting appliances and I’ve been thinking about giving that all the way to Le Grave’s Knitting Club. They made me a, well, it’s like an afghan and it’s on my walker and I use it. If I sit down in front of the TV, I pull that over my lap and it’s just sort of a comfort. So knitting is a skill that you can do while you’re watching television or you’re listening to somebody, a record of a book or something. Once you know how to do it, there’s so much of it that’s repetition and just boring. You just have to do row after row after row. And so it became a skill that I did while I did other things. But I’ve knitted my whole life. And what’s curious is Betsy really loved knitting too. And in fact, I have a hat. and a scarf from Betsy.
But I think she’s the only one of my girls that ever took an interest in knitting.
Jonathan: Well, you were the only child in your family or maybe the only person in your family that that I think of your did Connie or your brothers do craft work like that? No. And your did your mom do that?
Laura: No.
Jonathan: So what do you think your mom’s reaction was when you expressed an interest in going to to learn knitting? Is that would she have encouraged that? Or what would you recall?
Laura: The time that I spent traveling to take organ lessons, the time I spent my my one job that only lasted a year walking to five and 10 cents store on Clyde Park and working there a couple of afternoons and Saturdays for maybe a year. I just took those things on and I never ever felt my mother against any of these things. But she was not in a position where she could take me to these places where she could see what it was like for me to be in these places.
But she did get a kick out of the products that they produced. And she always loved listening to me practice. She always was curious about my knitting and what this was going to become.
Yarn was one of the very rare things that I had to purchase new. Clothing, you could thrift stores and garage sales and sometimes even passing clothes on between friends. My mother would, when she was teaching,
I remember her coming home with a jacket that someone she worked with gave to her for one of her kids. And my mom was not a spendthrift. She didn’t spend money easily. So finding how to make a sweater if you could get wool reasonable that see that buying yarn that was the one thing i’d have to go to a store for and was that was really a rare occasion for me to go shopping in a store for something but yarn you couldn’t get used anywhere and many of the projects took a lot of yarn so would that be out of your own
Jonathan: your own savings, or do you think your parents helped you?
Laura: When I started, they helped me. But then as the years went on, and when I started getting paid to, I was being paid by the time it was 15 for organ playing, then I had money to spend.
Jonathan: Mom, that’s so fun. I’ve known you’ve knitted and sewn your whole life. It’s so fun to hear that origin, that connection between Minot and you’re taking the initiative to take a knitting class with a bunch of other old ladies or a bunch of, you’re the only, you’re the young one in the bunch.
Laura: But you know, I learned to sew the same way taking a class. Cause I never had a mom or a grandma or somebody in my family teach me those things. And, I never felt my mother was against my doing any of these classes. I think she was interested, but personally, she didn’t care to learn any of that herself.
Jonathan: So you took the initiative. You did sewing class, too. Would that have been at Wurzburgs?
Laura: No. That was at a fabric store.
Jonathan: And just like a six week course, or did you go for multiple sorts of things?
Laura: Well I think that it would be once a week for a month. And for the most part, they taught you how to read pattern. Um, they, they would, they sold patterns. And if you, in those days, If you opened up an envelope, which was a pattern, it would all be in pieces. So the sleeves would be of kind of a tissue fabric. Every piece was in paper form, and you have to lay it out on a piece of material. But the trick was, first of all, knowing What was the straight stitches line? Because if you cut out one sleeve at an angle and then other sleeve straight up and down, it would look awful. So teaching not just to sew, but how to read and apply patterns. And now downstairs I have some boxes full of paper patterns that I used, but I don’t ever sew that way anymore. But that is what the class was. Usually they didn’t have enough sewing machines for the number of students in the class, but they did teach us how to thread a machine, how to change the size of the stitches.
So we did have experience on a machine that was in the class, but I had an old used machine that just was very dependable. And I had that thing for years, I think 20, 25 years before I bought a more modern one.
Jonathan: You, you taught yourself how to do that though. So you took a couple of weeks class and then the rest of it was, you would make clothes for yourself. What were the things would you make?
Laura: Oh, I made clothes for my kids. I made, I made okay. I started out by making aprons as gifts. Now my, my sister never took sewing or knitting, but she does, she does She did knit. She didn’t take a class, so I don’t know how she learned. But she still is a knitter. And I think that I made a couple of blouses and a couple of skirts. I know I had to go and buy fabric. But the other thing that I learned to do was to take something that was already a piece of clothing, cut it up, and use it in a new way. And so I got some of my fabric that way. Always knitting, sewing, birthdays. It was a very frugal world I lived in. no matter how it applied, whether it was making things or buying things.
I was also always limited in the amount of cash that I had available, but also I had the attitude that you did not need to spend a lot of money, that I learned to do everything the cheapest way I could find. And I think that I raised my kids that way. I don’t remember taking my children to the mall shopping for shoes and clothes.
It was my way of living and it was a happy way. I never felt deprived or I guess you’d call me a cheapskate but I didn’t feel bad about it.
Jonathan: How do you think that was instilled in you? Or is that it just because I don’t think I don’t think all of your siblings are like that.
Laura: And it’s kind of the other point to the other way. Both Connie and Ted spend money.
Well, for one thing, her pension is almost double what mine is.
But, you know, I It became a game. I would be tickled to get something cheap. There is satisfaction in not spending money. And both Ted and Connie are just absolutely the opposite. And I don’t know why all of us growing up in the same, we grew up in a house where they had to be careful about money because my dad never had Well, when mom started teaching and they had a double income, that changed things a little.
Jonathan: Do you have water?
Laura: I’m going to grab something quick.
Jonathan: We were talking about being frugal, and I got a sense just you’re talking about the gifting patterns and that sort of thing as you were growing up, that your parents were frugal. They were careful. I never really understood what your mom did as a teacher. Would you mind going on a little tangent about the things that your mom did?
Laura: Well, she did not enjoy teaching. And she only taught a couple of years, but then she stayed in the system as the librarian in the library. And that was really her job for many years.
She was an expert at authors and book contents. She did a lot of reading herself.
I think she was happy at that job because it meant she earned a living, but she didn’t have to have close relationships with the same people all the time.
So she was very happy as a librarian most of her life. And actually, I remember dad driving her to New York to get her master’s degree from a school in New York City. And it was qualifying her as a librarian.
Jonathan: That was a certification like a test, or was that more of a, that was where she went to school and had class?
Laura: That was where she went to school and had class.
Jonathan: She earned a master’s degree while you were living in Patterson, New Jersey. Yes. And, and your dad, she didn’t drive.
Laura: No.
Jonathan: So your dad would, would transport her.
Laura: Yeah. I you know, he did the same thing. There is a famous prison. in New York City, where as part of his study he got a degree that was not theological. It was some kind of counseling.
One of the things he was required to do was spend a semester doing a lot of things with prisoners in that prison. I think that there was a time when driving to New York was to accommodate both of their classes, both of their studies. And I think if mom had to wait for dad, she would just spend it in the library.
Jonathan: And at that point, all four of their children were in school during the day. I mean, is that the time frame that this would have happened?
Laura: Yes. In fact, some of them, I think that I was out of the house.
Jonathan: OK. All right. So that happened. Your mom’s getting her master’s. That happened later in her life.
Laura: Yes.
Jonathan: It’s fun to think of the two of them traveling into the big city to to pursue that your dad what do you recall anything about the car or any detail more details about that.
Laura: No, I don’t.
Are there other I can just tell you this. During World War two. There was a very serious problem with cars. Now my dad was a pastor and he needed the car because one of his jobs, particularly at Six Reformed, it was a very elderly congregation and there were many needed house calls for people that are sick, people who are old and lonely. So his car was critical to his job. And I remember
when he finally got a used Hudson. And it was kind of a boxy looking gray car.
And the neighbors and the church people, everybody had to take a look at it, you know, when he’d park, because it was a big occasion to find and purchase a car in those days. Cars, I don’t know about new cars, they must have been exorbitantly expensive and they were coming out in small numbers because there was so much of need for
military supplies, things that contributed to the war. It was a hard time to…
The bus schedules were long apart.
Transportation in the states was affected very much by the need for supplies to wage war.
Jonathan: That’s interesting. You know, Mom, I think that may be a really good segue into the next series of questions I’ve got for you. And it’s about the wider world and the historical events that you’ve lived through and the major events like that. Would now be a good time to pause today’s conversation and regroup on those topics another time?
Laura: I think so.
Jonathan: Okay. This has been a wonderful conversation with you today. I really particularly enjoyed hearing about the connection between Myna Kingma’s sweater and your interest in knitting and that sort of thing. So.
Laura: Well, I still do it all. I’m busy quilting right now.
Jonathan: You’re making something for, you got an intended recipient or can’t you reveal that at this point?
Laura: I just finished one for Ted and now I’m going to show it to you. Okay.
When I came back from New Zealand, they had given me a number of mattress pads that were, now a mattress pad is sealed and usually sewn together tightly, but these mattress pads were full of llama wool. And that is especially warm. Well, it was too fluffy. I could not really quilt. My sewing machine wouldn’t go through that much thickness. So instead, I made a comforter. It’s got the llama wool inside of it. And this is what I made for Ted. Let’s see.
Jonathan: I can tell it’s blue.
Oh, mom, that’s lovely.
I like those colors. That’s really lovely.
Laura: Yeah. Well, that’s my latest project.
Jonathan: Has he, has he seen you meet has he seen you make progress on that over the last couple of weeks or will this be a surprise?
Laura: It’s a surprise. He doesn’t know anything about it.
And it’s a sort of a celebration that the house is now his.
Ted’s had to start all over again.
Jonathan: Would this be a good time for me to stop the recording? What do you think?
Laura: Yeah.
Jonathan: Okay. I’m going to stop the recording. Hold on a second.