7 - College
Jonathan: So it is June 11, 2025, and we’re continuing our conversation. How you doing, Mom?
Laura: I’m all right.
Jonathan: Good. Good. Good. All right. Well, I’m recording now. And the last time we talked, we were talking about early, like the first year of college and early relationship with dad and I’m going to hand it over to you. What, what things would you like to share about that time?
Laura: Well, as soon as I began a job and as soon as I was living with Agnes and grandpa I was intent on arranging housing for our after we were married. So there was a trailer park in Granville. And dad ended up having a job at the Everhards in Granville. So we dickered with somebody and we ended up buying a trailer, but we didn’t want to have to pay the rent and the whole business while we weren’t living there. So the trailer was moved to grandpa Bartleson’s end of the street. You know how there was a creek there and they were the last house on the street and the road was wide with a big lot and we parked it there.
That only stayed there about two months. In fact, I don’t think we found it at that trailer park, but I do think that’s where we moved it just prior to the wedding.
It was basically one big bedroom, a living room with a eating area and it had all the appliances. So we didn’t need to buy furniture. We didn’t need to buy stove, refrigerator, anything like that. Everything was right there. Now this was at this time, Bob was convinced to go to college again. and he enrolled at Calvin to begin, our anniversary was in August and he started in September.
I kept in touch with Norm Meyer who had been our best man and Norm was a student at Calvin. And after a couple of months, I know around Thanksgiving, Norm said I haven’t seen Bob lately. How are you doing? And I said, well, he’s at Calvin. And Norm asked me what classes he was taking. And I told him. And so the next time contact he contacted me, which was closer to Christmas. He told me that Bob is not attending school.
Jonathan: Okay. Had you been married? Were you married already by this time?
Laura: Yes, and I had my first baby.
Now we got a little bit out of chronological order.
Jonathan: Okay, so tell me about the wedding or your parents. There’s some things that we might want to talk about you. You think all right, would it make sense to go back and kind of chronologically?
Laura: All right. The week the year that my parents moved to New Jersey, and I moved in with grandpa and Agnes. was a year of preparation for me. I was learning how to cook from Ann Agnes and I was planning and saving for our life in the trailer that I would, I was teaching at Kent, at Walker again. Yeah.
Jonathan: And so, and Bob had already proposed to you, like how, Give me that timeline. Were you in your first year at Calvin when he had proposed to you?
Laura: Yes. Yes. And I don’t even remember a proposal. I just remember a ring that he brought.
Jonathan: Well, you must have talked about it and you reached an agreement.
Laura: I guess we did. It wasn’t a significant conversation that I can recall.
Jonathan: You knew he was the one. Is that how I should interpret this?
Laura: Yes. Parents were gone and I couldn’t continue to stay at their grandpa’s for a long time. So for me, it was a living solution.
And I thought it also was an opportunity for him to finish his school.
Jonathan: Because it’s- I’m sorry, go ahead.
Laura: Because in those days, Working at a grocery store was not considered a noble career. I know his parents didn’t bless him for it. And he didn’t talk about it much, but he worked at Everhards. And I think they liked him.
Jonathan: This would have been kind of the conclusion of his first year at Hope. He came back to Grand Rapids that summer. Am I thinking of the timeline right?
Laura: That’s correct.
Jonathan: Okay.
Laura: So at any rate, I’m going to stop you again.
Jonathan: I’m sorry. I keep interrupting you. So because you had, it doesn’t sound like he got down on a knee and proposed to you. It wasn’t like that mushy mushy sort of thing. No. Okay. But, but you talked about it and you dreamed about having a family and, and, and he was going to be a minister and you were going to be an organist. I mean, is that the kind of the things that you would talk about? Uh,
Laura: We didn’t talk about it that much, but enough for me to think that that was where it all was heading.
Jonathan: Okay.
Laura: And the fact that he would be going to Calvin instead of hope was part of the plan to maybe go into the ministry.
Jonathan: Okay.
Laura: Okay. At least I thought so.
Jonathan: Yeah.
Laura: And he pretended so. Okay. And that’s exactly what it was. he pretended.
Jonathan: Can we stop there? Because this seems like such a fundamental thing, right? I mean, it’s like this disconnection mentally from reality, I guess. But why do you think, if you could speculate about what prompted Bob to go down that path?
Laura: It’s hard for me to say because he went to Godwin High School and it was not a really demanding scholarly program. So he never got into the groove of really studying seriously.
And I think that the supervision of his parents was minimal because they were so involved in Paris press. Yeah. They were very proud that he graduated. And I think that whatever plans I had hoped for when he talked about the ministry, I was hanging on to that. I may have been the only one that was hanging on to that. because sooner or later it became apparent to me that he was not willing to go through the sacrifice of serious study for that many years in order for him to qualify for such a job. So I knew his mother approved of our affair.
I don’t think his dad did, but he never, he, he never said anything, but he just was hands off. Yeah. And so, and, and I think that that was not just about our relationship or plans for marriage. I think that hands off was real for a lot of Bob’s life. So what his mom thought mattered to him.
Jonathan: Yeah. Courtney would be a son or something like that, and not engaged in Bob’s life. Is that what I’m hearing you say?
Laura: Yes, that’s right. And you’ve got to remember, and I’m going to repeat this again. Courtney had a very sad past about him and his father. So this is something that is repeated and repeated because his mother, insisted that he finish high school when his father wanted him to start earning money for the family and his mother secretly arranged for Courtney to move to Albany and live with some of her family and finish high school. So already he was removing his relationship with his own father.
So the fact that He wasn’t eager to have that relationship with Bob went along with his eagerness to be a successful businessman. When you knew you’ve got to understand Courtney, most of his business was with churches. He did he did their yearly address book. He did their weekly bulletins. So he was dealing with churches a lot. And I don’t think that that affected Bob and him or what it, what it ended up being was a slave job for Ida. She did. And so Bob’s father was removed from everybody in many ways. And I think that that goes back to a sorrow in his own life. So being a dad was not a priority for Corny or Bob.
And I think that the I don’t know when you talk with all of your siblings how they felt about their importance in their dad’s life and his importance in theirs.
I think they would have to tell you what that is, but I know that he, he missed out on some wonderful relationships because of his lack of empathy to be a dad. and also because of his drive to be a successful businessman, which he was. He was a good salesman.
Jonathan: Sure, sure. I want to backtrack before we venture off this because I think it’s important. This kind of fantasy about being a minister, I’ve always wondered if that was
pressure from his parents or desire of Bob’s to impress his parents or your parents in some way. Have you ever reflected on that?
Laura: Both. Both.
I think in his mind, he talking that way was effective. But in reality, doing the work to become that He just never got on track.
Jonathan: So your dad, Ted Jansma, shared meals with the two of you and knew Bob at some level. Would the two of them have theological conversations? Is that something that Bob would venture into or not so much?
Laura: No, no, no. Bob was always happy when he came for a meal. And I don’t think that even when the divorce was in the works, my dad never stopped being in touch with Bob.
Jonathan: Well, I’m curious. You mentioned that earlier. Go ahead.
Laura: I think that my dad knew that loss in Bob’s life, too. I think that my dad sensed that the relationship with Bob and his father was zero and that he was filling a place that he saw was a big need. And he hoped that that would inspire Bob to achieve what his dreams were. And even, I think my dad felt the same way about Bob as a businessman rather than as a minister once that was out the window. And I think that my dad admired Bob’s ability to sell himself. And the first place it happened was to Calvin College. When we were living in that little dump on Kalamazoo Avenue, Bob already had two customers at Calvin that were publications. That was the first regular job that he got.
Jonathan: I don’t want to hear about that, but we’re getting ahead of ourselves, I think. I’m going to pause you for just a second. A lot of people, I’m thinking of a guy that is wanting to get married to a girl, and there is trepidation about meeting the parents. And I wonder if you recall early interactions that Bob had with your family, both your parents and siblings. Do you recall what those events were like? And it sounds like, and another thing that I want to hear from you about is, it sounds like at a kind of important part in that and that early relationship that you had with Bob, that your parents moved to the East Coast. And can you just reflect on any memories you have about those first dinners where Bob was invited over to your parents’ house and your dad’s reaction, your mom’s reaction, your sibling’s reactions?
Laura: First of all, it was, I don’t even remember one time that Bob was invited to our house for dinner. My parents didn’t do that. I think that if he came to eat at any time, it would be that he popped in and there were leftovers, there was donuts or something sitting around. I don’t recall Bob sitting in our dining room with our whole family having dinner ever.
I think my sister Connie liked him. My mom did not really express an opinion, but my dad expressed interest and concern. But the concern was a loving kind, not a critical kind. And so he
made attempts that that relationship would be strong. And Bob felt that. And I think Bob returned the feelings. And that was right from the start. I think that happened when we were dating before they left for New Jersey. And I think that, of course, then there wouldn’t be any chances to invite him, they were too far away.
Jonathan: Sure.
Laura: So at that point his interaction with my family became much, much less. My mother didn’t reach out. My sister came to Calvin, well she’s three years younger than me, so she came when he was already done with college. Yeah. And so I don’t think the interaction between Bob and my siblings and my mother had, I think it was practically zero. The only thing that kept going was my dad and Bob.
Jonathan: So let me make sure I understand the timeline. You started dating Bob when you were a sophomore or a junior in high school?
Laura: The end of the junior year.
Jonathan: Yeah. all senior, you dated pretty continuously through senior year. And then even before you graduated, your parents relocated to New Jersey.
Laura: Yes. So I told you, Bob was the only one that went to my graduation.
Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. So then your first whole year at Calvin, you’re staying at Agnes and Grandpa Gazan. And so that’s and you’re actively dating, but he’s he’s in Holland. You’re in Rapid. So it’s not like you’re seeing much of each other.
Laura: And there were some funny complications about my going to college and living with Grandpa. Grandpa had a number of places that he rented. And he would drive around with his little Studebaker with a trailer behind. He was a terrible driver. He was always backing into things. One day, when I was senior at Christian High, and I don’t know if I told you this story before, my grandpa Kazan picked me up. Ordinarily, I would take the bus downtown and transfer back to Galewood. But my grandpa came to pick me up and lo and behold, he was right smack in the center of the double doors where all the students came out when the last bell rang. And there he was in his Studebaker with a little trailer full of manure.
And I wasn’t sure whether to act like I didn’t recognize him and just go get on the bus or get in the Studebaker as fast as I could and get the hell out of there. But that is one of my memories about high school when I was living with grandpa.
Jonathan: Yeah. So the next story, would he do that to embarrass you or was he just oblivious to how that might be perceived?
Laura: He had no idea how that looked. He had no idea how that looked. There were so many stories about how he drove and what he did.
It was scary because fortunately his accidents were always damaging to the vehicles but never to people. He never drove fast and he backed into things. And I know that he had, there was a business in Burton Heights where he would often go and buy a blouse or a nightgown for Ann Agnes. And it was in the parking lot there behind what used to be Langer’s Grocery Store and this shop that had clothing that he had his worst accident. I think he just he stepped on the gas and it was in reverse and he just really banged into it.
He could not drive away from there. There were enough observers.
He would always come home in the middle of the day and Agnes always had dinner at noon. And I can remember a number of times he came home with packages for Agnes from that store. And that store was owned by one of the Gazan of the next generation, a younger couple. And he liked giving them business. Now, what’s amazing is, grandpa must have sold his store at a decent price. And then his only income was the renters that he had, and he had three or four of them. And so his purpose in life was to drive every month to these places and pick up their rent. And he also I would hear him complaining about repairs that he had to arrange for his rental properties, but that became his whole life. And so he would leave in the morning in his car and, and we just assumed he’s gone to a renter’s place, but he would always be home for dinner. And if he ever went shopping for Aunt Agnes, it would be at noon that he’d bring the package home.
Jonathan: That’s a sweet memory. I wish I had met him. He sounds like quite a character. I have so many memories of that house and Aunt Agnes. And just imagine you living there in a really kind of critical part of your life. Did they get to know Bob and you, and did they have any involvement in your preparations for, I think she helped you cook, but were there other things that they did?
Laura: As we were getting ready for the wedding, about two months before that, Aunt Agnes became very sick and was hospitalized. And I believe it was pneumonia. So this is surprising. But when it came time for my wedding reception, Aunt Agnes and Aunt Connie did a great deal of the cooking.
And Aunt Agnes was always artistic about how she’d arrange the tables with flowers and the proper napkin, all the arrangements. And she was a wonderful cook. And I think that We paid for the cost of the chapel and the reception was held at the student union, which was right on the same campus, Franklin and wealthy in that area.
Jonathan: Was that the old Calvin College you’re talking about?
Laura: Yes. So the wedding was in the chapel. My father married us and the reception was just a walk across the campus to the student union.
Jonathan: Yeah. And your parents were there and Anas was there and Grandpa Gazan was there. What else do you remember of that day?
Laura: I remember Mary Vandenberg and Rosemary Brown. coming to me and they couldn’t believe that I had made my dress and they looked it all over because there was a center beaded portion and I remember they’re just raving how on earth did I do that not have to buy one and I think that they
Bob was good looking. He was charming to talk to. I think they thought that I had gotten a good one.
And we didn’t have any big picnic gatherings with their boyfriends and anything of that. So that’s why my memory of Bob and all my girlfriends is primarily the wedding reception.
Jonathan: Okay.
That sounds like a happy day, Mom.
Laura: Is that a dog I hear?
Jonathan: Yeah, that would be one of them. I can’t remember which one now.
Laura: OK, so that whole year in college, I was writing, calling, mostly calling and
I got decent grades the first semester, but the second semester I was just thinking wedding and Bob all the time. And I flunked French.
Jonathan: You told me about that.
Laura: That’s something I was so years and years later, I could not go back and continue school until I erased that terrible because no Gazan, no Janssen ever flunked any college classes.
Jonathan: No, wait a second. Where is that from? Who whose voice is saying that when you say that to me?
Laura: It’s me. I was I was absolutely ashamed.
Jonathan: But where did you get that? Where do you think that expectation was instilled in you?
Laura: Well, both of my parents, my mom had a master’s degree. My father went all the way through seminary and then more. Their scholarly history was without a doubt excellent. And my sister. who three years after me. And all my siblings did well in college too. Nobody ever failed anything.
Jonathan: Isn’t that funny that we attach so much significance to that at the moment? I mean, I’m sympathizing with you, but it must have been really a burden.
Laura: That was the end of college. That’s when I went looking for a job and worked at AT&T, believe it or not.
Jonathan: Yeah. Mom, this is good. I’m not sure if this is a logical place to pause or if there’s additional things you’d like to talk about today relating to this.
Laura: Well, the sunshine in that period happened when my counselor in the high school wrote a letter of praise about me to Walker Christian School. So after one year of college and going to work at a job in the office. They hired me because in those days you could not be pregnant and teach. And so they
Jonathan: You did talk about this before. I want to just say we have a record of you talking about that. It was a split class and you came in and I think the principal singled you out for piano performance, which was a neat experience.
Laura: That’s right. But to be hired with my record was very, very unusual. It happened only because of my high school counselor’s letter of recommendation. And it happened at a time when they were stuck. They had to find somebody fast.
Jonathan: Well, for both of you, what I know that really set in motion, that was a first grade teaching assignment, the grade that you would teach for 25 some years later, huh?
Laura: That’s right. That’s right. It became very satisfying and I felt successful again.
Jonathan: Yeah.
Laura: Then the babies started to come and I quit.
Jonathan: All right. That’s going to be the next chapter. What do you say?
Laura: Well in, in the meantime, the next chapter is going to talk about uncle Dick and Pauline helping to get a job for Bob because when I became pregnant, I couldn’t teach anymore. And then that this included building the house on point setia. And then the, school committee after I had two kids came and hired me again. And this was when we could not afford the house Dick built. And we moved to the little place on Kalamazoo Avenue. And that’s when, and we’ll have to do this the next time, that’s when my money bought the Juxta writer, which was the first machine that dad used for typesetting. And he did his typesetting and he got his two Calvin jobs while we lived in that little.
Jonathan: I’m looking forward to hearing the details on this, mom.
Laura: OK. All right. Well, for now, let’s end.
Jonathan: Hold on just a second.